10 responses to “The News: Saturday, June 24, 2023”

1. 

   johnthebasket

   06/25/2023

   Just read an article (a year-old article: I'm behind in my reading) quoting a NASA study about the "Where Are They?" question.

   Physicist Enrico Fermi was said to have asked this question at lunch in 1950 among others who had worked on the Manhattan Project and had moved on to working on the identification of other advanced societies across the impossible distances of the cosmos. Carl Sagan asked the question slightly differently in the Cosmos series. If intelligent life is rare, but evolves sometimes, where the hell are all the broadcasts and other ephemera associated with all the intelligent civilizations that must be populating the universe?

   There are still astrophysicists doing work on this "Where are they?" question today. One of the obvious answers is that intelligent life has yet to evolve on Earth, so we can't make reasonable inferences about other planetary systems. But, having produced Carl Sagan, Edward Hopper, Leonard Cohen, Grace Hopper, and, I suppose, even Hedda Hopper, we have at least an idea what intelligence looks like as long as we exclude Hedda.

   So where are they? And where are we?

   John

   Reply
   1. 

      Doug Holland

      06/25/2023

      Alone, probably.

      Or the intelligent species out there have no interest in us, so they leave no markers.

      It is a mystery that won't be solved in our lifetimes, or ever, probably. I certainly don't see humans lasting long enough to do much exploring.

      Reply
   2. 

      johnthebasket

      06/27/2023

      I don't see humans lasting long enough at the technology levels required to do interplanetary, much less interstellar exploration, but I wouldn't count homo sapiens sapiens down for the count. H. Sapiens Sapiens has been around for three hundred thousand years and H. Sapiens for 4-8
      million. We've found ways to survive. It turns out the more we surround ourselves with technology — hunting and gathering, agricultural, industrial, information, bio, and beyond, the worse we behave. In smallish groups we do OK, but we don't scale well. Maybe that's the case across the cosmos, maybe not. Intelligence itself (defined as the ability to broadcast radio and other electromagnetic signals) might be a deterrent to peace among and between species. As you say, it's a question you and I won't see answered. All we can do is eat doughnuts and hope for the best. Not a bad job as jobs go.

      John

      Reply
   3. 

      Doug Holland

      06/27/2023

      I'm curious about the future of humanity, post-me. Humans will still be here, surviving same as cockroaches. We're hardy.

      All our luxuries of life, though, pretty much require some serious serenity and reliable, predictable weather, and train tracks and freeway overpasses and utility wires that stay where we put 'em. That particular future looks precarious and temporary, so I reckon humans will learn to survive again without things like WalMart, the CBS Evening News, cheap pants imported from China, the internet — stuff like that.

      It would make a great movie, but no need to lower the lights cuz it'll be real.

      Reply
2. 

   johnthebasket

   06/25/2023

   You'd have to be an astrophysics geek to find this link interesting, but I do and I'm sure as hell not an astrophysicist. Just a few old men trying to recall a lunchtime conversation a lifetime ago that has become rather famous. This is a 15-20 minute read if you read the whole thing carefully, but you can probably plow through it in less time than that. Here's the link:

   https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/5746675%20Accessed%2017

   Just some old microfilm about an even older conversation among some men who have achieved slightly iconic status among physicists. I'm sorry I forget how to make that link hot. I'm also sorry I can't operate my phone or this damn computer with any hope of getting where I want to go.

   John

   Reply
   1. 

      Doug Holland

      06/25/2023

      This is the link beyond the abstract, hot and everything.

      The first few pages they microfiched are stamped "Do not microfiche," which amused me.

      It's an article I'd heard of but never read before, and only skimmed today, but might try really reading at bedtime.

      My short, smartass answer to the question is that everybody has better places to be. Any species smart enough to travel between the stars — what would be the appeal of stopping at this dump?

      Reply
   2. 

      johnthebasket

      06/25/2023

      Right, so when you get there, you need to click "View Technical Report" and that will take you to four or five recollections and recollections of recollections of the famous 1950 conversation. So where are they?

      jtb

      Reply
   3. 

      Doug Holland

      06/26/2023

      Wait, I'm confused. Is the question "Where are the aliens?" or is it "Where are the 4 or 5 recollections?"

      I will find out tonight, perhaps…

      Reply
   4. 

      johnthebasket

      06/26/2023

      Where are the aliens? They should be able to get across the Milky Way in about two million years. They've had much longer than that, so where are they? This is a serious question in astrophysics. At least one of our assumptions is faulty.

      John

      Reply
   5. 

      Doug Holland

      06/26/2023

      I'll stick with my answer. There's almost certainly intelligent life out there, but why would they give a hoot about us?

      Tell me there's an anthill three blocks from my house, I won't be interested enough to go look at it. We're the ants.

      Reply

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